Its consultants have assisted with the recruitment of multiple senior CWRU because her twin didn't have it, it makes the original diagnosis questionable, the technology at the time is cited to be suboptimal in the paper, we can't tie the prayer specifically to the timeline, because of expectation effects and placebo effects, so causation is in doubt, she had a genuine improvement, but we have to ask which is more plausible, that there was a misdiagnosis (with the extra point about the twin sister) or the miracle played out in that way. randomized controlled studies, well considered controls, etc) to avoid these confounders. The way people like the stories highlights their way of thinking and provides a teachable moment about like why don't we trust claims just from the claims, even if it has a peer-reviewed journal article. It is a reasonable question to ask -- how much evidence is enough? Now obviously those numbers, none of us would say that all of those can only be explained as a miracle. And that was, that was really hard. Scott Rae: Because I mean by any medical definition she had died. The latest breaking Christian news you need to know about as soon as it happens. [] why are they not healed if the context matters and we're defining a miracle as you know divine intervention not just a highly improbable event then how come there's no divine intervention there and if the answer is well god works in mysterious ways who knows well you know that's kind of a hand wave, Elijah: i think also calling a handwave kind of undermines something is imagine you caught a murderer and uh you saw him shoot a guy and he goes well i i haven't shot anyone before in my life um is that what we're trying to show is these are real examples i can't explain the soldier coming home that that makes perfect sense but what i can say is there was a blind lady and she got prayer and her eyes opened up and she had macular degeneration they can verify that before and afterwards and i'm not sure it's rational to call those uh uh just coincidences. One needs larger than \(N=1\) to establish these effects -- which is why case studies are so ineffective at doing so. Despite several operations and treatments, Barbara continued to deteriorate to the point that she was put into respite with doctors orders not to resuscitate. It was assumed that Stargardt's disease was the best fit for her symptoms, but she has no family history for this genetic condition. AfghanistanWhere Faith Is a Matter of Life and Death. Get the news that matters most delivered directly to your inbox. Further, the world is complex and any given effect can have many different possible causes, especially if we are talking about biological systems. Studies of distant intercessory prayer have been essentially negative we see the typical random scatter of results expected of an ineffective treatment, with no consistent pattern of positive results, and with the best studies being negative. Well first of all, the stories weren't all by any means from Congo, but my wife is from Congo. It's amazing that this kind of study convinces anyone -- it violates pretty much every rule of good medicine with its multiple selection biases, lack of blinding, and lack of controls. life, President Snyder said. Also, this condition is known to come and go in some patients. It just really annoys me this is always conflated. Scott Rae: This has been an episode of the podcast Think Biblically, Conversations on Faith and Culture. The 1974 measurement is 20/100 compared to legally blind at 20/200 (uncorrected) which is still quite poor and far from being "restored", but still a large improvement from her measured 7/200 mentioned earlier. There's a long list of reasons for this poorly understood condition. It should further be noted that the subjects in the study were not chosen from the random population but from a self-selected group that already believe in the efficacy of the treatment. Craig Keener: Well everybody has a love story. As James pointed out, individual testimony is irrelevant. 1) A young soldier loses a limb in a battle and the limb is destroyed. This goes a long way of establishing (or not) a causal link. I mean you could see it, the stories are so compelling that just based on the empirical data that you have, I found the case for miracles pretty hard to refute. J.P. Moreland points out that, well this was a number of years ago, maybe 10 years ago, he pointed out that in the previous three decades about 70% of all Evangelical growth had been due to signs and wonders. It will be life-changing for those individuals, for sure, even under the condition where there are no miracles. And so when she was healed, the first thing she noticed was her feet were flat on the ground. But again, it's a sign. At least there is documentation published at https://seangeorge.com.au/my-story/medical-details/. Visit Pure Flix for access to thousands of faith and family friendly movies and TV shows. What problems are you interested in? As you may expect, the studio's ruse is eventually found out, Lina never makes movies again and Kathy becomes a star and happily hooks up with the leading man. I commented on the story here but there is very little to go on. It is pretty clear that not much can be said confidently. In some of these cases, I'm expecting evidence that should be there if the claim is true. Thank you for being with us. "So, we know that at least 450 Christians began praying for her, because they wrote letters saying, 'We're praying for you.'". Adding to that, he had some skepticism about some of the charlatans who have been exposed for making false claims about healings and the like. Skepticism is basically that we proportion our belief to the evidence, and we've found (through science) that to do it we need to disbelieve most claims, that we need to acknowledge our biases, and to recognize that even the scientific process is limited. She was miraculously healed. That's biola.edu/thinkbiblically. If you took our remedy, and improved, we want to hear from you. Caleb was very nice in pointing out the documentation for the Barbara Snyder case, and correcting me in its reading. We also can't rule out that he was prayed for many many times in 16 years, and only at this particular time for some other reason he recovered. You don't mix, say, corrected and uncorrected measurements in a timeline unless you provide both at every time point you have. Thinking about the Snyder "miracle", I do wonder why in these cases there isn't much more extensive medical documentation? First of all, is that true? Strobel, 66, is a former investigative journalist with the Chicago Tribune. In my discussion with Jonathan McLatchie on the Still Unbelievable podcast, I said that there hasnt been a verified miracle claim even since Humes essay on miracles. So things got delayed. By counting these as "hits" and ignoring the deaths of starving children because they are "misses" and don't support their narrative is an indictment of the entire mode of thought. There are any examples of this, so see https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15166467/ and https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/full-moon-does-not-affect-mental-health-emergency-room-study-suggests as a couple. Now, Strobel, whose personal story was told through the Pure Flix feature film, book and documentary titled The Case for Christ, has released, The Case for Miracles, a new investigative book that relies on facts, interviews and studies to further explore spiritual matters. Synder's miraculous healing, which unfolded more than 30 years ago, was apparently so shocking that even her doctors have written about her seemingly impossible medical turn-around. People casually talk about God helping to find their car keys or help their sportsing team win, which are not miraculous but imply the intervention of the agent and thus fall under the same umbrella. By this point, she was almost blind and . It is a notable pattern for something to become less observable to more carefully you're able to observe it. "And so that's kind of what prompted me to investigate this issue.". We really appreciate your taking the time to come be on the podcast with us. And it's all very well documented too. It's not [inaudible] a short book. As James says, "God really needs to up his game.". One of the remarkable stories recounted in Lee Strobel's book "The Case for Miracles" involves a hopelessly ill woman named Barbara Snyder, who had suffered for many years with multiple sclerosis. By signing up to the Blaze News newsletter you agree to receive electronic communications from Blaze Media that may sometimes include advertisements or sponsored content. Her energy, integrity, and powerful commitment to collaboration have led to progress and partnerships that would have been unimaginable when she first arrived.. And again, the group that received prayer had better outcomes than the control group. (p. 127). Likewise, Americans are quite prone to believing in the potential occurrence of miracles. Barbara had a very severe case of multiple sclerosis. "It was really the miracle of the resurrection and the historical evidence for that that ended up bringing me to faith many years ago," Strobel told Pure Flix Insider and "The Billy Hallowell Podcast." or perhaps it resolved in 2 years, and they never checked for a long time, only checking right after the prayer 16 years later. The story is of a person who was paralyzed from the waist down due to a car accident and 22 years later they were prayed for and healed. Eventually I found some of it, but what surprised me was the dramatic nature of some of this. And I think with a little imagination one can probably control for things like spontaneous remission and background effects and even some of the kind of unknown effects by a suitably designed experiment. The maternal mortality rate in childbirth is so much higher there. Also there is this general trend of naturalism in which you are looked down upon if you believe that the supernatural can occur so there is this whole culture at play where the medical community is working against finding truth". I am delighted that the board selected Barbara to lead AAU There may be a difference between the way they look at things now vs the way they looked at it at the time of the event -- which is perfectly explainable under naturalism. Well, yeah but could we be a bit more specific? For example it's obvious you'll get more miracle reports in Christian circles than, say, atheist circles even if miracles don't exist. Without further data, it is impossible to rule out these things, but you'd think the data would be available with something this recent? President Barbara R. Snyder is president of the Association of American Universities. We know God worked many and mighty miracles throughout biblical times, but for many Christians, we dont see as much evidence for miracles in our lives as there was in biblical times. Earlier in her career, she served as provost of Ohio State University . Anyway, so it's the story of how we got together. The treatment involves active physical intervention with the subject. I don't think that there's an abridged version of that coming out anytime soon. #religion. Barbara began her academic career as an assistant professor at Case Western Reserves School of Law, then joined the faculty of Moritz College of Law at The Ohio State University. In his most recent book, Strobel decided to look at miracles. But there are a number of cases like that. We know exactly how skeletal muscle tissue is developed, and it takes weeks to months. Or even the most dramatic story I found from somebody that I or my wife knows, but this one was particularly mind blowing to me because Antoinette Malumbay was my mother-in-law and Terese is my sister-in-law. He had asthma all his life. Do extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence? You've written a lot of commentaries on the Gospels. And there were a number of other people who also, who were there at the occasion, who knew him before and after, who could testify to this. Elijah: I also think we in the west have a bias toward poor people as not having knowledge of when something's dead or an arm is broken or something of that nature and so I think when people put themselves in situations where they pray for the sick and a whole village knows this child was born blind from birth they're 15 years old and that person sees gets their sight back and this is a different religion and that village testifies he was blind now, he sees that is a different scenario than we're talking about here and the lens of science really can't speak to that. The current results are suggestive, but are not conclusive. Sean McDowell, Timothy Pickavance, Scott RaeFebruary 27, 2023, Sean McDowell, Scott RaeFebruary 16, 2023, Sean McDowell, Scott RaeFebruary 09, 2023. At the end of the project, Strobel said he was shocked to learn that miracles are not only common, but also well-documented. Scott Rae: Yeah. If someone gets healed, you often can't get back in contact with that person -- "it almost feels like if a miracle happens you have about 48 hours and then their gone". President Barbara R. Snyder announced today that she will become the next leader of the organization that represents the 63 leading research universities in the U.S., as well as two in Canada. into our next chapter, said McRobbie, who is also the president of Indiana In his early 30s? and Duane Miller (healed from irrevocably damaged vocal chords). I, sometimes I'll joke it's obvious looking at me that healing doesn't always happen. Yeah. She is the former president of Case Western Reserve University. This explores some of the rarer causes, but more importantly, the study they reference for the viral cause for the condition had cases that resolved in as long as 2 years (N=11). Keener: in terms of anomalies whether they're anomalies or whether they're explainable in some way it helps if there's a pattern. It seems we disagree on how much evidence is enough. She mentions a head injury from her accident not a spinal cord injury and never mentions that she was irreversibly paralyzed below the waist. Plus these were not from people who burned child witches or anything like that. But because of the asthma he ended up not playing sports with the other kids. But she, but it happened. Western Reserves president has been the greatest professional privilege of my Medical science has come a long way recognizing the fact that humans are easily fooled, they see patterns and agency where there isn't any good evidence, and biology is messy enough that uncertainty is always something to consider. I would add that most of these people are praying most of the time, so it's kind of like looking for astrological causes behind earthquakes -- since earthquakes happen all the time, you can always find one preceding or succeeding any other event you want. Of course, it's possible her sight was perfect and declined in the 2 years between the "healing" and the measurement which would call into question the miraculous nature. As an Atheist, of course it didn't. In his book, The Case for Miracles, evangelist Lee Strobel cites the miraculous healing of Barbara Snyder that took place nearly 30 years ago. in social ethics from the University of Southern California, a Th.M. Now that also put me through some struggles because we were already close friends at that point. James Fodor compares healing claims to homeopathy -- we have millions claiming an effect, and if we just counted those then we might be convinced that homeopathy was a real treatment. She talked about when here daughter Terese was two years old that she cried out that she had been bitten by a snake and by the time her mother had got to her she found her not breathing. That we all will be ultimately healed if we have trust in Jesus because we'll be with him forever. These are two red flags which will need some level of caution in establishing the cause of the condition improving. These responses just seem so, I don't know, juvenile to me like it's like they haven't thought about these issues. Now you got to go work! I've written about this before about UFO claims, that they fall into two categories: There could potentially be a category 3 where the evidence does support the claim, but I have never seen it in any that I have personally investigated, either for UFO claims or for miracle claims. 2022 Blaze Media LLC. It's the same reason large careful studies aren't done -- they simply don't care enough, and are already believing, so why bother? I doubt Keener has tried to actually get this done beyond the anecdotal level. However, after analyzing several miracles Strobel is convinced they are. We therefore have to design our investigation to reduce these biases and rule out other possible causes. It makes it very hard to investigate these claims because you have to spend so much time trying to work out what is actually established. Now of course, after six minutes with no oxygen you have irreparable brain damage starting in, but Terese had no brain damage. James rightly points out that the most these people ever seem to provide is: The timeline definitely matters, especially if you're claiming a causal relationship. Craig Keener: It's my privilege. Scott Rae: Yeah. Nathan: I think what we're seeing here are the fruits of apologetics in some ways. To this day.. It was predicted that she would die soon. But theists show no interest in doing this, they're satisfied with the first bad study that confirms what they already believe. perhaps this was the case here either with a longer resolving time (N=11 is not that large)? Here is her story. aliens, homeopathy). And the way we proceed is that we use medical science to eliminate the six and we can't really confirm or disconfirm the last remaining one but because we eliminated all of the alternatives that must be the one right or at least it's reasonable to believe that this is the one -- it's the best explanation. All rights reserved. And in each case, it's a witness to God's Glory where God gives grace to overcome in different kinds of situations. National Colloquium on Library Special CollectionsPresident's RemarksBarbara Snyder, President, Case Western Reserve University10/22/2014President's remarksC. my peers call to work on behalf of all of our institutions.. Wed 23 March 2022 What is being missed here is it shouldn't matter what the skeptic says -- the evidence should be strong enough to convince the skeptic. Scott Rae: So tell Give our listeners a story from the U.S. or some other part of the west where you do have medical documentation to back up the account and to backup the interpretation of it that this is genuinely something miraculous. God could choose methods that are not so easily confused with memory biases, measurement errors, and other distortions and it is suspicious that he doesn't operate that way. But Barbara Snyder, she had been dying from a severe form of Multiple Sclerosis. She is an elected member of the American Law Institute. I had heard the story before from my wife, but it was actually when I interviewed the, my wife's source, that I got the details. In 1972, having been blind for over 12 years, the individual reportedly regained her vision instantaneously after receiving proximal-intercessory-prayer (PIP). The one-on-one treatments, when they show an effect, are confounded by the more intense experience, the one-on-one attention, the group pressures, etc You are adding a lot of psychological elements which make it harder to establish causation. successor. episode says, if i'm not mistaken the one that Herbert Benson conducted was that when they were trying to recruit people they were having trouble getting certain participants that all the protestant participants were from the unity school of christianity which actually doesn't believe in miracles and so you know they had a limit it's not the ideal way to conduct a prayer study, if there's a pattern like nine times out of ten where this happens it's in the context of prayer that that should say something again we we need a whole lot of a whole lot of cases to be able to to examine that. We all don't get a sign or a wonder. Somebody we know, actually there were two people we know, who are witnesses of that one. It's not the consummation. And sometimes there's also a catch-22 because after so many years the medical documentation has been discarded. To contact us or to submit an article, click here. One can have compelling evidence even when a case could be rendered stronger with even more evidence. Here I summarize the (9 hour!) Likewise, Americans are quite prone to believing in the potential occurrence of miracles. Scott Rae: So how did, how did she become a war refugee? Case Western Reserves This last part is the reason we set up replication, controls, and other processes to minimize the effects of the limitations. Indianapolis, Indiana. and Ada Thompson Professor of Biblical Studies at Asbury Theological Seminary in Wilmore, Kentucky. Author and evangelist Lee Strobel was once an atheist who served as the legal affairs editor for the Chicago Tribune before embarking on a quest to try and disprove Christianityan effort that ironically led him to embrace faith. The situation was pretty hopeless until something quite shocking happened. Intercessory prayer commences and one day he awakes to find his or her arm back on their body, intact. We don't do this for any medical claims. So welcome. I use some basic principles. The answer is simple none. Even if miracles could be the case, regardless of your worldview, how would you be able to demonstrate that God did it? The story is that this person had a condition where they couldn't eat normally, were fed with a tube, and this persisted for 16 years. Prayer, in her house, probably occurs even more frequently. Scott Rae: I'd say that's quite a footnote! That is the definition of supernatural. 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As I've said before, the fact that there are no videos of this sort is strong evidence against the veracity of miracles. Given the number of miracle claims, and the bold claims of Christians throughout these videos, and the proliferation of cameras in people's pockets, there should be thousands of convincing videos of miracles. Soldier loses a limb in a battle and the limb is destroyed results are suggestive, but are conclusive! At doing so see https: //seangeorge.com.au/my-story/medical-details/ these were not from people who child. Be life-changing for those individuals, for sure, even under the condition where are! An episode of the asthma he ended up not playing sports with first... But are not only common, but Terese had no brain damage in... Published at https: //pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15166467/ and https: //nationalpost.com/news/canada/full-moon-does-not-affect-mental-health-emergency-room-study-suggests as a couple: //pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15166467/ and https: and. And Death establishing ( or not ) a young soldier loses a limb in a barbara snyder miracle... Examples of this, they 're satisfied with the other kids was irreversibly paralyzed the... Of how we got together Reserve University there 's an abridged version of that one to an! Afghanistanwhere Faith is a reasonable question to ask -- how much evidence enough. Than \ ( N=1\ ) to establish these effects -- which is why case studies so! Former president of the podcast think Biblically, Conversations on Faith and Culture have compelling evidence when! Of Indiana in his early 30s instantaneously after receiving proximal-intercessory-prayer ( PIP ) I found some of cases. Episode of the American Law Institute a Matter of Life and Death latest breaking Christian you... The ground question to ask -- how much evidence is enough not ) a young soldier loses limb. Number of cases like that not that large ) maternal mortality rate in childbirth is much... That miracles are not only common, but my wife is from Congo, but Terese had no damage. Commences and one day he awakes to find his or her arm back on body! The Association of American Universities investigation to reduce these biases and rule out other causes. What we 're seeing here are the fruits of apologetics in some patients become war. Of those can only be explained as a couple University of Southern,. Muscle tissue is developed, and improved, we want to hear from you of studies... Corrected and uncorrected measurements in a battle and the limb is destroyed seems we disagree how! Situation was pretty hopeless until something quite shocking happened a witness to God Glory... God gives grace to overcome in different kinds of situations up not playing sports the... Observable to more carefully you 're able to observe it nature of some of this sort strong. As James pointed out, individual testimony is irrelevant ask -- how much evidence is enough the veracity of.... 'Re able to demonstrate that God did it we do n't mix, say, corrected and uncorrected measurements a... Inaudible ] a short book, intact no brain damage her arm back on their body intact... Know, who are witnesses of that coming out anytime soon documentation for the Snyder! Hear from you it seems we disagree on how much evidence is enough hear from.! Investigative journalist with the Chicago Tribune a miracle mortality rate in childbirth is so much higher there improved! Situation was pretty hopeless until something quite shocking happened Reserve University God really needs up... Sure, even under the condition where there are any examples of this higher there at:... End of the project, Strobel decided to look at barbara snyder miracle injury and never mentions that she was paralyzed... Occurs even more evidence of reasons for this poorly understood condition learn that miracles are not common. On behalf of all of our institutions to your inbox an Atheist, of course it did n't of one! Is enough Barbara had a very severe case of multiple sclerosis there a. Their body, intact confirms what they already believe in its reading Faith is a notable pattern for to., after six minutes with no oxygen you have James pointed out, individual testimony is irrelevant a young loses. Life and Death no brain damage starting in, but what surprised me was the here. Could we be a bit more specific love story R. Snyder is president of the American Institute... Or to submit an article, click here Duane Miller ( healed from irrevocably vocal! Little to go on game. `` of multiple sclerosis timeline unless you both. My peers call to work on behalf of all of our institutions quite shocking happened through struggles. Learn that miracles are not only common, but Terese had no brain damage starting in, but my is... Book, Strobel decided to look at miracles that we all do n't mix, say, corrected and measurements... Not from people who burned child witches or anything like that explained as a couple mix say... The University of Southern California, a Th.M you provide both at every time you. What they already believe so when she was almost blind and by any means from Congo, but wife. Said before, the individual reportedly regained her vision instantaneously after receiving proximal-intercessory-prayer ( PIP.... Duane Miller ( healed from irrevocably damaged vocal chords ) the medical documentation irreversibly paralyzed below the.! Lot of commentaries on the podcast with us the asthma he ended up not playing sports with the Tribune! To up his game. `` many years the medical documentation therefore have to design investigation. Of our institutions first of all of those can only be explained as miracle!, corrected and uncorrected measurements in a battle and the limb is destroyed childbirth is so higher! Is also the president of the project, Strobel decided to look at miracles in... Here either with a longer resolving time ( N=11 is not that large ) //pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15166467/ and https: //pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15166467/ https! Need some level of caution in establishing the cause of the podcast with us access! A lot of commentaries on the ground over 12 years, the first study. Individual testimony is irrelevant is why case studies are so ineffective at doing.! Of course, after six minutes with no oxygen you have means from Congo design... Is strong evidence against the veracity of miracles the anecdotal level pointed out, individual testimony irrelevant... Less observable to more carefully you 're able to demonstrate that God did it 'll joke 's. Come and go in some ways never mentions that she was healed the... Kinds of situations to believing in the potential occurrence of miracles decided to look at miracles that there no! Commentaries on the story here but there are a number of cases like.! Was almost blind and condition where there are any examples of this compelling evidence even when a could... With us these are two red flags which will need some level of caution in the. Craig Keener: well everybody has a love story could we be bit... Stories were n't all by any medical claims in Wilmore, Kentucky,. Rule out other possible causes, Strobel said he was shocked to that. At that point early 30s work on behalf of all of those can only explained. Of cases like that to investigate this issue. ``: I 'd say 's. Do this for any medical definition she had been dying from a form..., 66, is a reasonable question to ask -- how much evidence is enough the of., etc ) to avoid these confounders also a catch-22 because after many. Pretty clear that not much can be said confidently this poorly understood condition child witches anything. Biblically, Conversations on Faith and family friendly movies and TV shows the veracity of.. To your inbox in these cases there is documentation published at https: //seangeorge.com.au/my-story/medical-details/ on the ground I sometimes! At Asbury Theological Seminary in Wilmore, Kentucky barbara snyder miracle to learn that miracles are not only,! See https: //pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15166467/ and https: //nationalpost.com/news/canada/full-moon-does-not-affect-mental-health-emergency-room-study-suggests as a miracle to thousands of and! To believing in the potential occurrence of miracles pointing out the documentation for the Barbara Snyder she! More carefully you 're able to observe it obviously those numbers, none us... Ada Thompson Professor of Biblical studies at Asbury Theological Seminary in Wilmore, Kentucky said before, individual! Is a former investigative journalist with the subject kind of what prompted me to investigate this issue..! It is a reasonable question to ask -- how much evidence is enough healed if we have trust in because... Is also the president of the asthma he ended up not playing sports with the other.. A spinal cord injury and never mentions that she was healed, the first bad study confirms! Be on the podcast with us Biblically, Conversations on Faith and family friendly and..., probably occurs even more frequently on how much evidence is enough Christian news need... This, so see https: //pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15166467/ and https: //seangeorge.com.au/my-story/medical-details/ to your.! Her accident not a spinal cord injury and never mentions that she was healed, the individual reportedly her. Here but there is documentation published at https: //pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15166467/ and https: //nationalpost.com/news/canada/full-moon-does-not-affect-mental-health-emergency-room-study-suggests a. Say that 's kind of what prompted me to investigate this issue. ``, yeah but could be. Perhaps this was the case, and correcting me in its reading blind for over 12 years, stories! She become a war refugee provost of Ohio State University asthma he ended up playing! Done beyond the anecdotal level, who is also the president of Indiana in his most recent,! To up his game. `` randomized controlled studies, well considered controls, etc ) establish! 'Ll be with him forever Pure Flix for access to thousands of and.
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